"Yet More Shameful and Ignominious..."

If Canadian civilisation had been written on by Plutarch, what would he say of us? What would he say of the treatment of our soldiers and our general attitude towards war?
...the Taliban feel confident Canadians are not resolved to see the mission through...
Sigh. Such a sad but true statement. The government is certainly correct in their concern regarding the effect tonight's "debate" will have on our soldiers. I fear that we would earn from Plutarch a description like that of Nicias of Athens.
...being naturally diffident and unhopeful in war, his good fortune supplied his want of courage, and kept it from being detected...
...Nicias declined all difficult and lengthy enterprises; if he took a command, he was for doing what was safe...
...This brought great disgrace on Nicias; for this was not to throw away his shield, but something yet more shameful and ignominous, to quit his charge voluntarily out of cowardice, and voting himself, as it were, out of his command of his own accord...
...Nicias's proceedings are inexcusable. For he did not yield up a mere opportunity off getting honour... believing that the expedition would be very hazardous, was thankful to take care of himself..."

How like Nicias our opposition, the NDP in particular, are.


PGP said...

The dippers are determined to prove this assertion.

Peter Thurley said...

I love how those who prefer peace and are willing to work towards it are immediately labeled cowards. It seems somewhat ironic to me. To my mind, real cowardice is the blind following of a nations leader into battle, without having the slightest clue as to the purpose or eventual goal of said battle.

The NDP isn't so concerned with the immediate and total pullout of Canadian troops as it is with the provision of appropriate justification for an offensive Canadian force in Afghanistan. Public debate is necessary in any democracy. If a war is justified, these justifications will become evident and the populus will support it. If the war is not justified, then the populus is liable not to support it. But we need all the information in order to prevent unjustified public support, such as what happened in the USA prior to the current Iraq offensive. If the American people knew then what they knew now, chances are Bush wouldn't be wandering aimlessly in the desert like he is now.

John said...

Peter Thurley, I seroiusly doubt that *ANY* justification that our government provided would be enough to satisfy the NDP that the troops should stay in Afghanistan. The NDP *WANT A PULLOUT* - - PERIOD.

But they know that saying this would be likely be quite unpopular politically with the Canadian public so they have decided to play politics with the issue and call for a "debate". I don't think I'll comment anymore on this issue here with you because if you are this strident a supporter of the NDP then it's unlikely that ANYTHING I say will convince you otherwise and I'm not going to change MY mind.

Peter Thurley said...


Of course the NDP would like a pullout. That, however, was not my point. My point is that while the NDP supports a pullout, they would like to see debate and input from Canadians on the subject. If Canadians asked them to go to Afghanistan, then they would likely, albeit grudgingly, go. My point had more to do with the recent moves of Harper to close up debate on the topic and pull a George Bush - unless you support our war in Afghanistan, you are unpatriotic, and, according to Ruth, a coward. Name-calling is always the prefered method of abuse for those who don't actually have anything substantive to contribute and desire only to silence opposing opinion or debate.

And John, I'm surprised that you have made so many assuptions about me. I have been known to change my mind before, and am open to well-reasoned argumentation. However, I don't change my mind easily. Your argumentation will have to be flawless - or at least better than mine ;)

Believe it or not, I was once an active supporter of the Reform/Canadian Alliance Party, having participated in election campaigns and having voted for them on at least one occasion. The fact that I am now a firm supporter of the NDP is evidence that I can be persuaded to change my mind.

Ruth said...

I hate to bring this up, but if the NDP were so interested in peace, and the well-being of our soldiers, then why the heck didn't they push for a debate when they were first sent to Afghanistan? It's very convenient to lose nerve now, when the going is starting to get tough. When our soldiers were first sent, they supported the mission 100%... including the lack of debate.
Some great desire for peace is not what is motivating the NDP. If it were, then they would see that we are bringing peace to a nation that has been ravaged by years of evil leadership. The good of our soldiers is also not what is motivating the NDP. If it were, then they would be behind them, since most of those ACTUALLY DOING THE WORK support the mission.
No, the NDP is motivated by optics and cowardice.

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